RE: [Company] submissions to the list

Vince et al.

I believe that we are in general agreement and should I get elected as the
technical councilor, we will have at least two votes to try to keep the
costs down and to keep ISAC vendor friendly. ISAC effectively has three
constituencies: researchers, clinicians, and industry. Fortunately, our
society is not a zero sum game. Rather we are in a symbiosis.

As for arrays, there is precedent to include them with digital imaging of
cells. In the case of a related standard, arrays are within the area of
interest of the Pathology Working Group (26) of Digital Imaging and
communications in medicine, DICOM. The instrumentation and reagents employed
to analyze arrays is sufficiently close to that used for digital microscopy
that including them together in the subject matter of a single scientific
society is reasonable. One other point of overlap is that arrays can have
cells in their chambers. 

As far as the costs of the meetings is concerned, my favorite meeting was at
Cambridge University, perhaps it would be possible to be able to run our
meetings at other institutions of higher learning. Since I have not seen the
cost breakdown for Budapest, I cannot comment on the source of the
comparatively high cost of the meeting. However, I know from other meetings
that I have been involved in, that the hotels either directly or indirectly
through hotel occupancy taxes, kick back to the convention centers. I have
added meetings that were considerably smaller than ISAC where there was a
food and drink minimum. A banquet and lunches would often suffice to cover
this minimum. The SPIE seems to have their costs under control. As a chair,
one has the meeting attendance fee waved and gets a free copy of the volume
written by the authors at the meeting. The  chairs pay for their travel and
lodging.  As far as the US is concerned, I favor meetings in cities served
by low cost airlines.

Even though I have also lived in Chicago, please vote, but only once.

Bob Leif


From: vincent.shankey@Coulter.Com [mailto:vincent.shankey@Coulter.Com] 
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 3:48 PM
To: cyto-inbox
Subject: [Company] submissions to the list



Dear Friends and Colleagues, 
Without belaboring the point, while I find this an interesting suggestion,
it would imply that I should place [Company] in the subject line because I
work for a company. All rules have their excess, and I would submit that J
Paul (actually Steve) and company have done a great job maintaining the
integrity of this list. If an occasional message is allowed thru that has
potential commercial implications, I would rather have that than complete
(or no) censorship. If individuals wish to express their displeasure at a
specific posting (irrespective of the source) this allows discussion, and if
necessary, re-calibration of the gating algorithm. And regarding vendors
monitoring the list versus actively soliciting messages, I suspect that most
monitor this list to gather useful information, much of potential use to
their customers. But this is quite different from "open access" for
solicitation. 
While I'm here, some additional comments: 
1.) Cost of the ISAC meeting. I find the registration of $650 (US) a bit
steep for a meeting. While I was on ISAC Council, a resolution was passed by
Council that the Congress be shortened (in an attempt to reduce the
registration fee and overall cost) and be held annually. The combination of
a $650 registration fee plus hotel costs (esp in Europe- for US scientists)
makes it difficult for many labs to bring key technicians and post-docs; it
even makes it difficult for many senior scientists to justify. To put this
in a bit of perspective, the American Asc for Cancer Research charges a $425
(US) registration fee to their members for their 4 day. An important
difference is that the AACR has SIGNIFICANT industrial support. We need to
do as much as possible to make our meeting's overall cost "reasonable". ISAC
must do everything it can to keep the overall meeting costs (registration,
airfare, hotels and meals) to a minimum (this ain't ASCO). 
2.) Vendor support. This is essential for ISAC or any other professional
society. At one point, I was chair of the committee that raised donations
for the ISAC Congress, and approached every company that I could think of
that sold products to our membership quite shamelessly. Every society does
this because it helps lower the cost of the meeting (or should) for the
individual attendees. And by the way, the money the vendors use comes from
the customers. Donations are thus a means to widen the available attendees
who will buy their products. The approach must be balanced. 
3) Meeting location. While I appreciate this is a problematic issue, refer
back to item "1. At one point, ISAC restricted the Congress to "smaller"
venues to keep us together. Much science gets discussed (in places that tend
to serve alcohol) at ISAC, and that's one reason I attend (discussion, not
libations). Where will we gather in Budapest (after poster sessions)?
Unlikely to be the InterContinental Hotel - I probably could not afford one
beer there. 
4) What is the focus of ISAC? I'm running for Clinical Councilor (sorry, I
too had to get in my pitch), so my potential constituency for the most part
has a limited focus. But the society needs to have a balanced focus on flow
and image cytometry. And I don't think that DNA, RNA or protein arrays
should be our soup!. Our unit of measurement is the cell, and once you bust
it up, someone with better technical expertise should be telling scientists
and clinicians what best to do. That said, we should communicate and work
with "non-cellular" scientists where our interests and technologies
intersect. 
I need to go home for the weekend. A Happy Easter to all. 
Sincerely, 

Vince 

p.s. I'm running for Clinical Councilor. If you live in Chicago vote early
and often 


T. Vincent Shankey, Ph.D.
Advanced Technology Center
Beckman Coulter, Inc.
vincent.shankey@coulter.com
(305)-380-2430





"FloCyte Associates, INC" <flocyte@flocyte.com> 

03/20/2008 02:16 PM 


To

Cytometry Mailing List <cytometry@flowcyt.cyto.purdue.edu> 


cc


Subject

RE: Bay bioscience opens US office and introduces its JSAN  cell sorting and
analysis system there






No this is not acceptable!  I'm sorry, I just don't get it!  I agree 100%
with Roland.

I can't understand your position at all?   WHO pays the majority of the
expenses for meetings?	Vendors! Without them your cost to attend ISAC would
probably triple or quadruple!!	 Who allows you to have very cheap or FREE
local users' group meetings? Vendors!  Who solves issues with vendor
services??  VENDORS!  Why on earth would you exclude vendors from the
discussion???  

And actually SOME people welcome messages from vendors... Vendors can solve
a lot of your problems!  The Boston Area high speed sorter list, for
example, welcomes vendors responses and they get results.  The vendors HEAR
their requests and respond!  I've learned a LOT from vendors!  Without
messages from Vendors, how do you find out about new products and services?
How often would you go to the ISAC website to look for a new product you
don't even know exists?  Or how do you know there is some training
opportunity happening in your area?  OR how do Vendors know what you need
and how do you get your service / technical questions heard by all vendors?


Shutting them out isn't the answer to your mail problems!  Roland's answer
was eloquent!  And, although we've discussed this often, nothing has ever
evolved that is a better suggestion!  If you don't like messages from
vendors, just filter them out, and having [Company:]  in the subject time is
a perfect way to do that!   

I'm sorry, I just don't get it!!   Why would you shoot yourself in the foot?
Vendors - you can put my email address on your mailing list!!  Just put
[Company:] in the subject line!  I'll filter them and decide what I want to
read or not read later!  Just like I filter this list!	
Sue


At 01:37 PM 3/18/2008, you wrote:

I would suggest extending this to include use of e-mail addresses from the
mailing list for commercial solicitation.  Can we agree this is unacceptable
?






-----Original Message-----
From: Joanne  Lannigan [ <mailto:jl7fj@cms.mail.virginia.edu>
mailto:jl7fj@cms.mail.virginia.edu]
Sent: Sun 3/16/2008 11:56 AM
To: cyto-inbox
Please refrain from use of this list for commercial purposes. The ISAC
website has a place where you can post news releases about such events or
information. Thanks-

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 12:17:03 -0500
 "Jeffrey Harvey" <jsharvey01@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> Bay bioscience is a Japanese company, based in Kobe.	The company designs,
> develops and manufactures high performance cell sorting and analysis
>systems
> and also develops unique reagent products.  The company made the decision
> earlier this year to establish a direct office in the United States and
> to introduce its instrument systems here.  Bay bioscience currently offers
> the JSAN system, which combines high performance cell sorting and analysis
> capabilities in a compact and affordable design.  The company office is in
> the San Francisco area and the company has demo sites on both the East
>Coast
> and West Coast.  Please visit the company website (
<http://www.baybio.co.jp/> www.baybio.co.jp ) to
> learn more about the company and its products.	I will be overseeing
the US
> operation and also the distribution of the products in Europe  The company
> will be an exhibitor at both the Northwest Regional Cytometry Meeting
>(March
> 13-15, in Portland, OR) and at the ISAC Congress in Budapest (May 17-21).
> Please visit us at either of those meetings, if you wish to discuss any
> aspect of the company's products.  In the interim, please feel free to
> contact me directly, at this email address.  I'll look forward to hearing
> from you.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Jeff Harvey



mailgatemia2 made the following annotations
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